tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post1206868853006852200..comments2024-02-06T08:33:52.695+02:00Comments on Eeben Barlow's Military and Security Blog: THE NEW GENERATION PUMA MPV/MRAPEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-39522115956300186412009-09-05T06:40:37.923+02:002009-09-05T06:40:37.923+02:00I think what we are witnessing right now is absolu...I think what we are witnessing right now is absolute mutiny within the armed forces, Tango. <br /><br />I recall the problems of those years and the actions taken but the end result remained unchanged. Our security forces, police and armed forces, have tarnished their name through ill discipline, inadequate leadership, poor control, non-existent vetting and so forth. The situation will not improve in the short term and the government needs to take a long, hard look at the type of person it is attracting to these very important forces. <br /><br />I don’t think that by firing a few the situation will improve.<br /><br />Rgds,<br /><br />EebenEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-50107561198837381582009-09-04T20:30:43.561+02:002009-09-04T20:30:43.561+02:00Eeben,
We have had similar problems in the past (1...Eeben,<br />We have had similar problems in the past (1990-1994)regarding unions and strike actions by members of the SAPS ,Correctional services as well as the SANDF.<br />Action was taken against them.<br />33 Policemen were fired and again 88 at a later stage were arrested for mutiny . 32 Soldiers (21 Battallion)from the Lens base were convicted for mutiny as well in 1993<br /><br />Current legislation is in place to take similar action against the most recent incident at the Union Buildings.<br />Let's see how it is dealt with now in 2009.<br />Regards<br />TangoTangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12651381316753084396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-33828813247672938212009-09-02T11:26:11.609+02:002009-09-02T11:26:11.609+02:00I am deeply concerned at the state of affairs in t...I am deeply concerned at the state of affairs in the SANDF, Eet Kreef. I have to wonder “why” this is happening and “what” may lurk behind this rabble-like behaviour. One must also ask what will happen when this undisciplined mob are armed and let loose?<br /><br />As regards age: you are quite correct. Age seems to play no role in the SANDF’s recruiting policy and the result is what we witness at the moment. <br /><br />I have said it before and I shall say it again: Thank God I never served in the SANDF. They are a disgrace to the values of any armed force.<br /><br />Rgds,<br /><br />EebenEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-21765404545430013042009-09-02T10:33:03.364+02:002009-09-02T10:33:03.364+02:00Your comment on Trade unions and the SANDF caught ...Your comment on Trade unions and the SANDF caught my eye. I recently read somewhere that the average age of a troep in the SANDF is 30 (as opposed to 18 in the British Army)!!! Changes are definitely neededeet kreefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17309418877087418788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-28310853376051545062009-09-02T08:45:52.389+02:002009-09-02T08:45:52.389+02:00You are so right, Tango. However, what we witnesse...You are so right, Tango. However, what we witnessed at the Union Buildings is both disgraceful and a shame. But, when an army can have a trade union and can decide what they will do and not do, when and where they will deploy or not deploy, who they will fight and who they won’t, we need to recognise that we are in dire trouble. <br /><br />The current SANDF seems to be a place where those who have no respect for authority, no desire to serve their country and no intention of protecting the Constitution find succour. There is no discipline, no leadership and no desire to serve anyone but themselves. <br /><br />Government would do well to abolish the SANDF’s trade union, get rid of the HUGE number of incompetents that are currently in command (and other) positions and revert back to a proud, disciplined and combat-ready armed force. Until that day, we will see more of what has happened. <br /><br />There have even been whispers that next time round, the army will shoot back at the police. If that is not cause for concern, then I don’t know…But, as I always said, we now have the army the West wanted us to have. <br /><br />Rgds,<br /><br />EebenEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-28543232607749090382009-09-02T07:36:00.849+02:002009-09-02T07:36:00.849+02:00Hi Eeben,
Something on a lighter note.
The recent ...Hi Eeben,<br />Something on a lighter note.<br />The recent happenings at the Union Buildings made me think of the song below.(A soldier could never be paid enough if he does what is expected of him to to for his country !)<br /><br /> Old Soldiers Never Die<br />There is an old cookhouse, far far away<br />Where we get pork and beans, three times a day.<br />Beefsteak we never see, damn-all sugar for our tea<br />And we are gradually fading away.cho: <br />Old soldiers never die,Never die, never die,<br />Old soldiers never die<br />They just fade away.<br />Privates they love their beer, 'most every day.Corporals, they love their stripes, that's what they say.<br />Sergeants they love to drill. <br />Guess them bastards always will<br />So we drill and drill until we fade away.note: <br />This song achieved instant recognition when DouglasMacArthur quoted it in his farewell speech.@army @soldier @bitching.<br /><br />Regards<br />TangoTangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12651381316753084396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-16200158983047688262009-08-23T15:45:50.408+02:002009-08-23T15:45:50.408+02:00Thanks for the link, Tango. I had a look at it whe...Thanks for the link, Tango. I had a look at it when Robby sent it through and again now. It is amazing what was actually accomplished with very little and I believe it is testimony to the men who took part in that event in our history. <br /><br />Looking at the photos the men took still gives a certain tug to the heart as we all went rheough the same albeit at different times.<br /><br />Rgds,<br /><br />EebenEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-47836491668765715602009-08-23T15:13:42.533+02:002009-08-23T15:13:42.533+02:00http://uk.geocities.com/sadfbook/sharetxt.html
Nic...http://uk.geocities.com/sadfbook/sharetxt.html<br />Nice link.<br /><br />Eeben i found a few of my own pictures of what we called "Big Daddy's"( Bedford truck filled with sandbags and a bench in the centre).One of our convoy's coming home in October 1975.( We withdraw from Rhodesia to the RSA.Politicians would know better as to why).<br /><br />It is amazing how many good and funny story's one can find on the internet relating to your post.<br />As you said<br />"Even more amazing are the feelings looking at those old vehicles still evokes"<br />Pictures tell a lot!<br />Regards<br />TangoTangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12651381316753084396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-6156083863854113742009-08-23T10:05:47.951+02:002009-08-23T10:05:47.951+02:00Robby - I was at Kroonstad and Bossiespruit for ba...Robby - I was at Kroonstad and Bossiespruit for basics, JL's an CO's. Went to Bethlehem after that. My diensplig was mid 84 to mid 86. Thanks for the link - I have it bookmarked.eet kreefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17309418877087418788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-58302500739296694852009-08-23T07:48:22.447+02:002009-08-23T07:48:22.447+02:00eet kreef ... where did you do basics and what yea...eet kreef ... where did you do basics and what year...mine was Bethlehem 1970 found this the other day while looking for a pic of a Bedford truck filled with sand bags :-) ...the link is a hoot<br /><br />http://uk.geocities.com/sadfbook/sharetxt.htmlEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-89539513439202690452009-08-22T11:20:50.007+02:002009-08-22T11:20:50.007+02:00A very valid point, Eet Kreef. The Buffel was inde...A very valid point, Eet Kreef. The Buffel was indeed uncomfortable – and ugly to boot but as you point out, it did the job and in the process, saved many lives. To the east of Pretoria, there is a Buffel graveyard that bears silent testimony to this. <br /><br />I am increasingly alarmed at seeing how troops are expected to use vehicles in a role they were never intended for. The Puma, despite being a very good MPV/MRAP is not an IFV and will most certainly not stand up to an anti-tank gun or a 155mm IED. But then again, very few if any IFVs will stand up to such a threat. <br /><br />Rgds,<br /><br />EebenEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-84345621537104845532009-08-22T10:39:47.583+02:002009-08-22T10:39:47.583+02:00Hi Eeben, I was one of the Buffel-era troops. They...Hi Eeben, I was one of the Buffel-era troops. They were uncomfortable. But they worked. All these vehicles though, have limits. A fellow sapper once drove his Buffels slap bang into a group of T55's in Angola. That good they were not, and he backed off. As you said, they need to be used for the right purpose. I'd hate to be doing patrols in a Landrover in Helmund Province. And people have to realize that even the Puma is not going to work against a 155mm shell buried in a wall next to you, and they won't work against an anti-tank gun.eet kreefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17309418877087418788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-89385993523883338572009-08-20T15:13:22.661+02:002009-08-20T15:13:22.661+02:00Thanks for your comments Matt. I have forwarded th...Thanks for your comments Matt. I have forwarded them directly to Clive who, I believe, will be in touch with you. Such comments are highly appreciated.<br /><br />Rgds,<br /><br />EebenEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-87815083093734761872009-08-18T19:44:25.496+02:002009-08-18T19:44:25.496+02:00They are usually government-run institutions, xEMP...They are usually government-run institutions, xEMPIR3x. I have not had the honour of lecturing at private military schools yet. I was (very briefly) considered for some form of lecturing post in the US but that fell through the map with a thump. <br /><br />Rgds,<br /><br />EebenEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-44183090193322168912009-08-18T19:40:36.917+02:002009-08-18T19:40:36.917+02:00Good to hear from you again xEMPIR3x. I am pleased...Good to hear from you again xEMPIR3x. I am pleased the posting could have been of value to you. I am also pleased to hear that you wish to take a career in the military. I am sure your country needs good men and I wish you everything of the best. Being a soldier is not only a career, it is a state-of-mind. <br /><br />Thanks for the link re the MPVs from way back when. I am sure others will also enjoy taking a look at these old beasts.<br /><br />Rgds,<br /><br />EebenEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-86232773124453551362009-08-18T04:32:27.535+02:002009-08-18T04:32:27.535+02:00Eeben,
I forgot something in my first post but yo...Eeben,<br /><br />I forgot something in my first post but you say in our brief bio that you lectured/lecture at military colleges and universities. Are those strictly government run or do you do private military schools too? Also have any of those or will future ones be held in the United States?<br /><br />ThanksxEMPIR3xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01411506975693637987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-30400240261565690552009-08-18T04:09:59.087+02:002009-08-18T04:09:59.087+02:00ITs been awhile since I have been here so I took t...ITs been awhile since I have been here so I took the time to read all the entries that I have missed including one where you summarized peacekeeping and peacemaking and the role a PMC could take in this manner and it only took you a couple paragraphs to make it more than convincing. It took me months of research and a final paper of 16 pages to try and convince biased teachers on the real dilemma the U.N. has created.<br /><br />I am planning on a career in the infantry once I finish my schooling so the history behind these vehicles is even more interesting. If it is appropriate I am going to post a link to a website where some military photo collectors have posted photos of the Rhodesian Bush War and you can see the many different types of anti insurgency vehicles as well as the men who manned them.<br /><br />http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=134312<br /><br />again if this is unwanted here Im sorry I posted itxEMPIR3xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01411506975693637987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-72387842410106891652009-08-17T14:20:44.072+02:002009-08-17T14:20:44.072+02:00Thanks for that addition, Matt.
Rgds,
EebenThanks for that addition, Matt.<br /><br />Rgds,<br /><br />EebenEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-84995940171079224542009-08-17T14:19:03.357+02:002009-08-17T14:19:03.357+02:00Matt, here is the feedback I just received from OT...Matt, here is the feedback I just received from OTT. Clive will be contacting you shortly to take discussions further.<br /><br />Rgds,<br /><br />Eeben<br /><br />Hi Eeben<br /> <br />Sorry about the delay in replying to you (and Matt) but our comments as follows:<br /> <br />The original Puma was born out of a requirement for a Mamba 4x2 type vehicle, but the outdated mechanicals of the (2nd Hand) Mambas, as well as the relatively low protection levels, needed to be upgraded. Matt’s comments around the aircon efficiency and placement are valid and more care has been taken with the integration of the aircon on the new Puma M26. We have always tried to use commercially available units (to keep costs down and repair ability up), but these don’t always integrated seamlessly on these types of vehicles. Another possible reason for the relative inefficiency of the aircon was that the hatches (turret) are open most of the time, drawing a continuous supply of hot air in from the outside. We have not ruled out the specific development of a custom designed aircon for this (and other) vehicles to try and counter these issues.<br /> <br />Speaking of the turret, Matt’s suggestion of the hatch accommodating the HMMV type turrets is excellent and we would be very keen to get hold of a set of drawings that would enable us to design the hatch accordingly – any takers?<br /> <br />In so far as power goes, the new Puma M26 is still no road rocket, but the gear ratios are better suited to the large wheels better than that of the original Puma. The 4x4 drive also makes it far more versatile.<br /> <br />The ceiling padding is a good idea and a classic example of sensible inputs from guys who use these vehicles every day. As far as the seats go, as much as I have complete comprehension for the kidney shaking ride, the hard seats, together with the 4 point seat belts are specifically designed to inflict minimal damage to the occupant in the event of a mine blast. Commercial air suspension seats will actually cause more damage to the occupant in the event of a blast, although they will be more comfortable over the day to day bumps. There are specialised shock absorbing seats available that offer the best of both worlds, but these do have an influence on the vehicle price. If procurement departments can be convinced of this addition, they can be fitted.<br /> <br />Eeben has covered the issue of the wheels well enough, although I fully appreciate the frustration surrounding the time required to change these wheels <br /> <br />One should remember that the windows are the weakest point on the vehicle and once they are cracked in anyway, may offer only a fraction of their specified protection levels. For this reason, we keep the windows as small as possible (also easier and cheaper to replace), whilst trying to keep a good field of vision.<br /> <br />I would be interested to see more on the F550 conversion on the Mamba. In SA we have a limited source of suitable mechanicals from a purely commercial source and we have looked the F550 components several times, but the fact that the vehicle is not available here increases lead times and costs severely. <br /> <br />Thanks for the comments and we will publish any further changes to the new Puma M26 as they occurEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-36071442644248359892009-08-17T14:14:28.621+02:002009-08-17T14:14:28.621+02:00OTT have asked me to thank you for the feedback, M...OTT have asked me to thank you for the feedback, Matt. They are speaking to as many people as they can to make sure that it gives troops what they want without compromising the integrity of the vehicle. <br /><br />Clive Lewis, the boss of OTT has also asked to thank you for being willing to speak to them. He will contact you by email shortly.<br /><br />Rgds,<br /><br />EebenEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-13806787384948508502009-08-17T14:11:10.011+02:002009-08-17T14:11:10.011+02:00It is indeed a shame, Ken. But, at the end of the ...It is indeed a shame, Ken. But, at the end of the day, it was all about giving money to friends and not really about saving lives. Anyone with some desire to resolve the dilemma the soldiers are facing would have looked further afield to see what was available. <br /><br />The new generation Puma is indeed something great.<br /><br />Rgds,<br /><br />EebenEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-55720555867747950772009-08-17T14:07:22.824+02:002009-08-17T14:07:22.824+02:00I remember them, Robby. Then we went one smarter a...I remember them, Robby. Then we went one smarter and had Unimogs with sandbags…problem was that if you didn’t get killed in the blast, you got killed when the sandbags landed on top of you when you came down from the blast. We added water to the tyres and we had our first prototypes. But, it was the start of something we could all feel proud of in the end. Our MPVs saved hundreds of lives.<br /><br />Rgds,<br /><br />EebenEeben Barlow's Milsec Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942119485068301545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-29851349678830178972009-08-17T08:15:03.140+02:002009-08-17T08:15:03.140+02:00Oh, and with the scrap heap film that Robby posted...Oh, and with the scrap heap film that Robby posted, those are pretty common over there. Most of those vehicles are there because they ran over an IED and they are no longer repairable. But what that video does not say is that those vehicles are certainly being used to repair other vehicles. I should know because when I was at Al Asad Air Base, we used to go to the DRMO lot (junk yard) and get armor from old vehicles, to up armor our vehicles. The military was constantly using pieces off all of that stuff to repair vehicles out on the road to keep the war machine running. <br /><br />So believe me, those vehicles are still being useful as providers of parts. But yeah, when the war is over, the Iraqi Army and Police will probably have at the HMMVs. The Abrams I doubt will be left there. I could be wrong, but those are still regarded as pretty sensitive equipment.<br /><br />Also, the intent of the film, and I am just saying this because the music was kind of somber, was to remind the viewer that most of those vehicles had injured or dead in them do to IED attacks. And yeah, the waste of leaving all of that stuff seems shocking, but really, the Iraqis will need stuff to repair their vehicles, which happen to be HMMV's.matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04645537637248773668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-48406270309962736772009-08-17T07:58:22.589+02:002009-08-17T07:58:22.589+02:00Thanks Eeben. It would be awesome to hear from OT...Thanks Eeben. It would be awesome to hear from OTT about this vehicle. As for my experience with the Puma, I have driven it on convoy operations in Iraq, as well as use it as a patrol vehicle for site security. Most of the country I operated the thing in was the Western Anbar Province in Iraq, but I have also operated it in the south of Iraq. I was also an instructor for the thing, but that was very informal and nothing fancy. It was mostly teaching guys to drive a stick shift on the right side, as opposed to the left side. And definitely teaching guys how to drive it with passengers--you can hurt folks if you do it wrong. In essence, no one else on the site had driven and worked around the thing as much as me and my buddy, so we were the assigned instructors for it. We even developed a road kit that was specific for this vehicle. (the Pumas we had were missing the road kits because of equipment negligence over time and guys stealing crap) <br /><br />If the guys at OTT would like to contact me personally, they can get me at headjundi@feraljundi.com, or they could do it here. I don't know if they are getting much feedback from contractors in Iraq that have actually used the vehicles, but if they want it, I will definitely give it.matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04645537637248773668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-955273524757178757.post-38295532288227246162009-08-17T04:17:35.870+02:002009-08-17T04:17:35.870+02:00Eeben,
It is a shame that Eric Prince and
Blackwa...Eeben,<br /><br />It is a shame that Eric Prince and<br />Blackwater spent an estimated $25<br />million to create a vehicle eerily<br />similiar to the puma after the<br />sec of defense called for the development of a vehicle which would be more resistant to ieds back in 2003. Why America didn't <br />buy into the idea of the vehicle is beyond me. Like you have said,<br />it could have saved countless lives and injuries from happening<br />to the ones on ground.<br /><br />regards,<br />kenken borrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11468394163502457653noreply@blogger.com